口罩得问题不是特别简单么

daemonself1
楼主 (未名空间)

你觉得有用就带2个或者10个,biz觉得有用就可以强制,你家你说了说,穿防化服都行。你为啥非得政府强制别人带,别人不带你不接触不就好了么。今天可以强制口罩,明天可以强制结扎,在过几天阳性就当场枪毙我看都可以写进法律了
V123

你们这些杠头不明白, 病毒从你身体出来传染别人,是不以人的意志为
转移的,别人控制不了, 你也控制不了

鳖共讲的一句话是真理--- 生命权是第一人权!

构成重大生命威胁的传染病,就得强制。因为你保证不了你不传染别人(而且实际上这个比例相当高)
这个不会在法治社会过渡到强制结扎

凡是过渡到强制结扎的,也不是因为昨天强制戴口罩!!!!

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你觉得有用就带2个或者10个,biz觉得有用就可以强制,你家你说了说,穿防化服都行
: 。你为啥非得政府强制别人带,别人不带你不接触不就好了么。今天可以强制口罩,明
: 天可以强制结扎,在过几天阳性就当场枪毙我看都可以写进法律了

daemonself1

你们这些人也不明白,用所谓潜在得危险给政府无限扩大得公权力是人类社会走向1984得根本原因。先不要说口罩瞎jb乱带有球用,就算有用,这种强制得权力也应该留给个体。商家公司应该自己决定这些policy,政府不得干预,你有选择权去强制口罩得场所。所以德州得决定才是最正确得选择。一个餐馆如果不强制,所有口罩党可以不去么。如果全人类都相信口罩有用,这个餐馆不就倒闭了么
【 在 V123 (文成武德日月神教教主-正在301治脚气) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你们这些杠头不明白, 病毒从你身体出来传染别人,是不以人的意志为
: 转移的,别人控制不了, 你也控制不了
: 鳖共讲的一句话是真理--- 生命权是第一人权!
: 构成重大生命威胁的传染病,就得强制。因为你保证不了你不传染别人(而且实际上这
: 个比例相当高)
: 这个不会在法治社会过渡到强制结扎
: 凡是过渡到强制结扎的,也不是因为昨天强制戴口罩!!!!

V123

别扯淡了,那下面就是我有权shoot 鼻子里面往外冒病毒的人了

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你们这些人也不明白,用所谓潜在得危险给政府无限扩大得公权力是人类社会走向
1984
: 得根本原因。先不要说口罩瞎jb乱带有球用,就算有用,这种强制得权力也应该留给个
: 体。商家公司应该自己决定这些policy,政府不得干预,你有选择权去强制口罩得场所
: 。所以德州得决定才是最正确得选择。一个餐馆如果不强制,所有口罩党可以不去么。
: 如果全人类都相信口罩有用,这个餐馆不就倒闭了么

daemonself1

你得强制不就是给政府shoot你得权力么。其实本来这个强制令就是扯淡么,从来都没
enforce过,在出来之前,德州所有大得公共场所都强制了
【 在 V123 (文成武德日月神教教主-正在301治脚气) 的大作中提到: 】
: 别扯淡了,那下面就是我有权shoot 鼻子里面往外冒病毒的人了
: 1984

V123

你们这些杠头就是不明白啥是自由

你的自由不能侵犯别人的自由,不管是有意的还是无意的

这个道理共产党都讲给你们过,你们就是不明白

这次的大传染病不是potential 的危险,而是正在进行时的危险,为了保证你不侵犯别人的自由,你的自由就必须受到限制,明白么

不是别人可以选择不出去,而是你必须保证你不散步病毒!这种要求一旦换位思维,解决就是只有一个,就是所有出门的人必须戴口罩!

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你得强制不就是给政府shoot你得权力么。其实本来这个强制令就是扯淡么,从来都没
: enforce过,在出来之前,德州所有大得公共场所都强制了

daemonself1

人家不带口罩怎么侵犯你得自由?你难道没有不接触这些人得自由么?
【 在 V123 (文成武德日月神教教主-正在301治脚气) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你们这些杠头就是不明白啥是自由
: 你的自由不能侵犯别人的自由,不管是有意的还是无意的
: 这个道理共产党都讲给你们过,你们就是不明白
: 这次的大传染病不是potential 的危险,而是正在进行时的危险,为了保证你不侵犯别
: 人的自由,你的自由就必须受到限制,明白么
: 不是别人可以选择不出去,而是你必须保证你不散步病毒!

V123

你能保证不戴口罩却绝对不散布病毒么? 你们这些受过高等教育的反智分子,不知道
是吃啥吃错了

就好象到处都要求狗要leash一个道理! 因为你没法保证你的狗不leash也不咬人!

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 人家不带口罩怎么侵犯你得自由?你难道没有不接触这些人得自由么?

daemonself1

这个逻辑完全fail了,强制口罩多久了,难道病毒没有了么?所以没有任何所谓公卫措施可以100%阻止病毒。人类自由是怎么失去得?就是源自于对未知得恐惧而导致得对强权得崇拜么。我本人认真带口罩,但是反对一切政府强制口罩得行为
【 在 V123 (文成武德日月神教教主-正在301治脚气) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你能保证不戴口罩却绝对不散布病毒么? 你们这些受过高等教育的反智分子,不知道
: 是吃啥吃错了

V123

问题在于,我帝压根没有真正强制!!! 发一个通知,然后屁也不管, 那不叫强制

这就是这个SB国家的问题

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 这个逻辑完全fail了,强制口罩多久了,难道病毒没有了么?所以没有任何所谓公卫措
: 施可以100%阻止病毒。人类自由是怎么失去得?就是源自于对未知得恐惧而导致得对强
: 权得崇拜么。我本人认真带口罩,但是反对一切政府强制口罩得行为

s
skybluewei

你私自禁止不戴口罩的,人家可以告你歧视。。。
FortyNiner

Then enforce it. The reason it cannot be enforced, so far, is too many
people are still like you.

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你得强制不就是给政府shoot你得权力么。其实本来这个强制令就是扯淡么,从来都没
: enforce过,在出来之前,德州所有大得公共场所都强制了

FortyNiner

It is not 100% effective, but that does not mean it is of no use. Plus, it is not 100% effective because of people like you.

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 这个逻辑完全fail了,强制口罩多久了,难道病毒没有了么?所以没有任何所谓公卫措
: 施可以100%阻止病毒。人类自由是怎么失去得?就是源自于对未知得恐惧而导致得对强
: 权得崇拜么。我本人认真带口罩,但是反对一切政府强制口罩得行为

FortyNiner

Easy to say you have the rights to avoid those people. The reality is,
there is pretty much no way many of them can avoid them once there are many of them. They have to go shopping, some have to go to work, and some have
to see the doctors physically, and some even have to take public
transportation.

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 人家不带口罩怎么侵犯你得自由?你难道没有不接触这些人得自由么?

r
rdfirdfi

生命权是第一人权
This is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

Everyone that WOULD die frome covid MUST DIE!

【 在 V123 (文成武德日月神教教主-正在301治脚气) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你们这些杠头不明白, 病毒从你身体出来传染别人,是不以人的意志为
: 转移的,别人控制不了, 你也控制不了
: 鳖共讲的一句话是真理--- 生命权是第一人权!
: 构成重大生命威胁的传染病,就得强制。因为你保证不了你不传染别人(而且实际上这
: 个比例相当高)
: 这个不会在法治社会过渡到强制结扎
: 凡是过渡到强制结扎的,也不是因为昨天强制戴口罩!!!!

r
rdfirdfi

Your logic is upside down! If you can't prove someone is actually spreading virus (for example, tested positive), you don't have reason to mandate them to wear a mask!

Can you ensure every preciously convicted sex offender do not rape again?
Should we cut their JJ?

【 在 V123 (文成武德日月神教教主-正在301治脚气) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你能保证不戴口罩却绝对不散布病毒么? 你们这些受过高等教育的反智分子,不知道
: 是吃啥吃错了
: 就好象到处都要求狗要leash一个道理! 因为你没法保证你的狗不leash也不咬人!

r
rdfirdfi

You can choose to go to shops, hospitals, and transportation methods that
mandates masks on their premises.

You can quit job if your employer's health measures are not satisfactory for you.

If you can't afford the above, take the chance of catching the disease and
dying!

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Easy to say you have the rights to avoid those people. The reality is,
: there is pretty much no way many of them can avoid them once there are
many
: of them. They have to go shopping, some have to go to work, and some have
: to see the doctors physically, and some even have to take public
: transportation.

FortyNiner

Sex offenders, we put them in prison. We have them registered. Even before they are convicted, we put them in jail. We are doing all these to
minimize the chance for them to commit the crime again. The same reason, we can mandate mask, for the good of the general population, at this special
time. During normal time, there is no need to do that.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Your logic is upside down! If you can't prove someone is actually
spreading
: virus (for example, tested positive), you don't have reason to mandate
them
: to wear a mask!
: Can you ensure every preciously convicted sex offender do not rape again? : Should we cut their JJ?

FortyNiner

You know that you are talking about tens of millions of people in the US, do you? 525k American's lives has been wasted, and it is still not enough to elicit your empathy? You are too callous.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: You can choose to go to shops, hospitals, and transportation methods that : mandates masks on their premises.
: You can quit job if your employer's health measures are not satisfactory
for
: you.
: If you can't afford the above, take the chance of catching the disease and
: dying!
: many

s
skybluewei

有权无权不是你说了算的,这是公权力。。。任何社会都要考虑公共利益,不仅仅是个人自由和利益。
【 在 V123 (文成武德日月神教教主-正在301治脚气) 的大作中提到: 】
: 别扯淡了,那下面就是我有权shoot 鼻子里面往外冒病毒的人了
: 1984

r
rdfirdfi

People die from a variety of reasons. 525k of American lives does NOT worth the risk of government power expansion. Period. This is a judgement call.

All people that WOULD die from covid MUST die!!!

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: You know that you are talking about tens of millions of people in the US, do
: you? 525k American's lives has been wasted, and it is still not enough
to
: elicit your empathy? You are too callous.
: for

r
rdfirdfi

Covid positive patients, we put them in quarantine. This is equal to sex
offenders being put in prison.

Mandate mask wearing is equal to mandate chastity belts in public.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Sex offenders, we put them in prison. We have them registered. Even
before
: they are convicted, we put them in jail. We are doing all these to
: minimize the chance for them to commit the crime again. The same reason,
we
: can mandate mask, for the good of the general population, at this special : time. During normal time, there is no need to do that.
: spreading
: them

FortyNiner

>>>All people that WOULD die from covid MUST die!!!
I see you using this statement many times. How about the people who WOULD
NOT die from covid?

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: People die from a variety of reasons. 525k of American lives does NOT
worth
: the risk of government power expansion. Period. This is a judgement call.
: All people that WOULD die from covid MUST die!!!
: do
: to

r
rdfirdfi

Then they WOULD NOT die from covid. 99% of people infected would not die
from covid.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: >>>All people that WOULD die from covid MUST die!!!
: I see you using this statement many times. How about the people who WOULD
: NOT die from covid?
: worth

FortyNiner

Suspects waiting for trials who are not yet convicted, we put them in jail. Everyone is a suspect of positive covid, that is why they need the mask
mandate, similar to the jail time.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Covid positive patients, we put them in quarantine. This is equal to sex
: offenders being put in prison.
: Mandate mask wearing is equal to mandate chastity belts in public.
: before
: we

FortyNiner

Then according to you, there is no need for them to go to hospitals? You
don't believe hospitals (ICUs are in the hospitals) can save lives? Those
saved by ICUs, don't you believe that they most likely would not make it if they were not admitted into ICU? Similarly, those who died from covid, if
they were not infected in the first place, they WOULD NOT die.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Then they WOULD NOT die from covid. 99% of people infected would not die
: from covid.

r
rdfirdfi

If the police is 5% confident that someone committed a crime, will that
person be put into jail? Will that person be asked to put on a chastity belt?

As the government, you can always suggest people to do the right thing and
show their empathies by showing the people truthful data. Mandating mask is an expansion of government power and sets a dangerous precedence.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Suspects waiting for trials who are not yet convicted, we put them in jail.
: Everyone is a suspect of positive covid, that is why they need the mask
: mandate, similar to the jail time.

r
rdfirdfi

Everyone WILL BE infected with covid SOONER OR LATER. This is a SCIENTIFIC
conclusion.

I would agree to send the message to the people if hospital are about to be overwhelmed, so that they can adjust their behavior. However, hospitals in
US are NEVER overwhelmed. NOBODY in the US died from covid because they are not admitted to a hospital.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Then according to you, there is no need for them to go to hospitals? You : don't believe hospitals (ICUs are in the hospitals) can save lives? Those
: saved by ICUs, don't you believe that they most likely would not make it
if
: they were not admitted into ICU? Similarly, those who died from covid, if
: they were not infected in the first place, they WOULD NOT die.

FortyNiner

Governing is a collective decision. If not because of the vaccines, there
will be a lot more deaths, and eventually the vast majority of the people
will agree with mask mandate and lockdowns. Imagine that we had 5 million
deaths in the US now, were you still against them? No? How about 50
million? 100 million? The fact is, most states (>2/3) have had mask
mandates. So oftentimes there is no right or wrong in government policies
or laws for cases like this. Eventually, it is how much price you are
willing to pay for freedom. For me, 500k American lives is more than enough
. For you, the price is just higher. But eventually you also have a price. Freedom is not free, and not everyone can afford it all the time.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: If the police is 5% confident that someone committed a crime, will that
: person be put into jail? Will that person be asked to put on a chastity
belt?
: As the government, you can always suggest people to do the right thing and
: show their empathies by showing the people truthful data. Mandating mask
is
: an expansion of government power and sets a dangerous precedence.
: .

FortyNiner

Sooner or later makes a huge difference. With mask mandates and safer-at-
home, more people will get infected later. Give healthcare system more time, and it will be better or at least more experienced, and then it is a lot
safer to get infected, just like common flu. Just compare last March and
April to this winter, the case fatality rate has been dropped by more than
10 times. Imagine last March and April we had as many cases as this winter, the number of deaths would be more than ten times.
Hospitals in the US were never overwhelmed? Do you live in LA county? Our ICU had reached limit in early January, and that happened when we had safer-at-home and mask mandate.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Everyone WILL BE infected with covid SOONER OR LATER. This is a SCIENTIFIC
: conclusion.
: I would agree to send the message to the people if hospital are about to
be
: overwhelmed, so that they can adjust their behavior. However, hospitals in
: US are NEVER overwhelmed. NOBODY in the US died from covid because they
are
: not admitted to a hospital.
: if

r
rdfirdfi

"Government" is a vague concept. I think it's proper for the legislature to make a law and set a dress code for people in the public (just like you can't be naked). However, I don't think an administrative branch should extend
their emergency power for over a year.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Governing is a collective decision. If not because of the vaccines, there
: will be a lot more deaths, and eventually the vast majority of the people : will agree with mask mandate and lockdowns. Imagine that we had 5 million
: deaths in the US now, were you still against them? No? How about 50
: million? 100 million? The fact is, most states (>2/3) have had mask
: mandates. So oftentimes there is no right or wrong in government policies
: or laws for cases like this. Eventually, it is how much price you are
: willing to pay for freedom. For me, 500k American lives is more than
enough
: . For you, the price is just higher. But eventually you also have a
price.
: Freedom is not free, and not everyone can afford it all the time.
: ...................

FortyNiner

The problem is, we don't know how long this thing is going to last or for
how long it remains as a serious health threat. Laws are intended to last "forever". EOs are more like temporary and for emergencies like this.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: "Government" is a vague concept. I think it's proper for the legislature
to
: make a law and set a dress code for people in the public (just like you
can'
: t be naked). However, I don't think an administrative branch should extend
: their emergency power for over a year.
: enough
: price.

r
rdfirdfi

1. Individuals can decide to stay at home and choose to get infected later
than sooner. You don't need a mandate for that.

2. I don't live in LA county. Not everyone lives in LA county.

3. Reaching the limit is not breaking the limit. And if the health care
system reaches the limit, why don't they ask for the hospital ship?

4. You want to ask people in Texas to do something to protect people in LA. This logic is very dangerous.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Sooner or later makes a huge difference. With mask mandates and safer-at-: home, more people will get infected later. Give healthcare system more
time
: , and it will be better or at least more experienced, and then it is a lot
: safer to get infected, just like common flu. Just compare last March and : April to this winter, the case fatality rate has been dropped by more than
: 10 times. Imagine last March and April we had as many cases as this
winter,
: the number of deaths would be more than ten times.
: Hospitals in the US were never overwhelmed? Do you live in LA county?
Our
: ICU had reached limit in early January, and that happened when we had
safer-
: at-home and mask mandate.
: ...................

r
rdfirdfi

You can make a conditional law, such as "in a pandemic of respiratory
disease, people should wear mask".

Why don't you write a letter to your district's legislator and suggest this?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: The problem is, we don't know how long this thing is going to last or for : how long it remains as a serious health threat. Laws are intended to last "
: forever". EOs are more like temporary and for emergencies like this.
: to
: can'

FortyNiner

And imagine this covid is as contagious and deadly as Black Death, (Of
course, with today's healthcare, the original Black Death might not be that deadly if it were to hit us today, I hope.) I am sure you will not be
arguing about this mandates. I am not even sure if we are still alive to
argue about the mandates.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: "Government" is a vague concept. I think it's proper for the legislature
to
: make a law and set a dress code for people in the public (just like you
can'
: t be naked). However, I don't think an administrative branch should extend
: their emergency power for over a year.
: enough
: price.

r
rdfirdfi

More than 1 year is not temporary. There is plenty of time for the
legislature to react and do something.

In fact, other countries legislature did something. Denmark, Sweden, Japan, etc made or are making covid laws.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: The problem is, we don't know how long this thing is going to last or for : how long it remains as a serious health threat. Laws are intended to last "
: forever". EOs are more like temporary and for emergencies like this.
: to
: can'

FortyNiner

Cal has the mandates, and I am happy with that.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: You can make a conditional law, such as "in a pandemic of respiratory
: disease, people should wear mask".
: Why don't you write a letter to your district's legislator and suggest
this?
: "

r
rdfirdfi

This is a "what-if" scenario. If you want to play the game:

1. What if we have 100,000 people dead now from covid. Do you agree the
mandate?

2. What if we have 50,000 people dead now from covid. Do you agree the
mandate?

3. What if we have 10,000 people dead now from covid. Do you agree the
mandate?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: And imagine this covid is as contagious and deadly as Black Death, (Of
: course, with today's healthcare, the original Black Death might not be
that
: deadly if it were to hit us today, I hope.) I am sure you will not be
: arguing about this mandates. I am not even sure if we are still alive to : argue about the mandates.
: to
: can'

r
rdfirdfi

Then you happily live in Cal. Don't bother people in other states.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Cal has the mandates, and I am happy with that.
: this?

FortyNiner

But we didn't know ahead of time that it would be more than a year. Making laws in the US involves a lot more bullshits than most other countries. I
am not against getting the legislature to make laws, but it is not happening
. So I am going for the next one, EOs.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: More than 1 year is not temporary. There is plenty of time for the
: legislature to react and do something.
: In fact, other countries legislature did something. Denmark, Sweden, Japan,
: etc made or are making covid laws.
: "

r
rdfirdfi

That is the issue of US. Solve it, or we don't have covid mask mandates.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: But we didn't know ahead of time that it would be more than a year.
Making
: laws in the US involves a lot more bullshits than most other countries. I
: am not against getting the legislature to make laws, but it is not
happening
: . So I am going for the next one, EOs.
: ,

FortyNiner

The what if is your, and my price. For me, over 100k deaths is enough to
have these mandates. Or it is the price for me to sacrifice some of my
freedom to help my fellow citizens.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is a "what-if" scenario. If you want to play the game:
: 1. What if we have 100,000 people dead now from covid. Do you agree the
: mandate?
: 2. What if we have 50,000 people dead now from covid. Do you agree the
: mandate?
: 3. What if we have 10,000 people dead now from covid. Do you agree the
: mandate?
: that

FortyNiner

Just putting out my opinion. I dont' believe I can make any difference to
people in TX. However, we the people in Cal can still be affected by people in TX.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Then you happily live in Cal. Don't bother people in other states.

r
rdfirdfi

Don't get me wrong: I wear masks in the public voluntarily all the time.
However, I think the damage of government power over-reach is worse than 5% of the people dying.

Specifically to covid, I don't think mask "mandate" saved or will save many people. By mandating, you probably changed the compliance of mask-wearing
from 70% to 80%. What does it really do? For sure mask mandate would not
save 500k people. Maybe it just saved 10% of those people, say 50k, which
will fall below your threshold.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: The what if is your, and my price. For me, over 100k deaths is enough to : have these mandates. Or it is the price for me to sacrifice some of my
: freedom to help my fellow citizens.

r
rdfirdfi

Everyone's behavior will affect everyone else. You can't mandate everyone
else to behave to save you.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Just putting out my opinion. I dont' believe I can make any difference to
: people in TX. However, we the people in Cal can still be affected by
people
: in TX.

FortyNiner

1. Many people, millions, cannot do what you said. As community members,
we need to make some sacrifice to help them.
2. Of course LA is only a small portion of the US, I simply meant facial
mask mandate and safer-at-home have helped us a lot here in LA. Whether or not other places need it, I am not arguing about that.
3. Trump did send the navy hospital ship to LA, but it took more than a
month for it to get in position, and it was pretty much of no use.
4. I never advocate an EO in national level. I believe a state level EO is appropriate. Even in county level might be appropriate once the situation becomes much better and only a few hot spots are still problematic.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1. Individuals can decide to stay at home and choose to get infected later
: than sooner. You don't need a mandate for that.
: 2. I don't live in LA county. Not everyone lives in LA county.
: 3. Reaching the limit is not breaking the limit. And if the health care
: system reaches the limit, why don't they ask for the hospital ship?
: 4. You want to ask people in Texas to do something to protect people in LA.
: This logic is very dangerous.
: time
: winter,
: Our
: ...................

FortyNiner

The mask mandate is not as effective as it intends because many of us are
still arguing. And as a result, it is not enforced.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Don't get me wrong: I wear masks in the public voluntarily all the time.
: However, I think the damage of government power over-reach is worse than 5%
: of the people dying.
: Specifically to covid, I don't think mask "mandate" saved or will save
many
: people. By mandating, you probably changed the compliance of mask-wearing : from 70% to 80%. What does it really do? For sure mask mandate would not
: save 500k people. Maybe it just saved 10% of those people, say 50k, which : will fall below your threshold.

FortyNiner

Again, "me, me, me" is the problem. When Cal is in bad shape, it still is, I am willing to sacrifice some of my freedom so that we don't spread it to
TX or other states. We all should. Since many of us are just thinking
about "me, me, me", it is necessary to have those mandates to prevent them
from getting infected from and infecting others. You certainly will agree
with me, it is just you have a higher price, right?

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Everyone's behavior will affect everyone else. You can't mandate everyone : else to behave to save you.
: people

FortyNiner

Wearing mask yourself is not enough. I've never accused you of not wearing mask. But we need almost all people in public to do that, when they might
run into others, to save lives--our own, our loved ones' and other fellow
Americans'.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Don't get me wrong: I wear masks in the public voluntarily all the time.
: However, I think the damage of government power over-reach is worse than 5%
: of the people dying.
: Specifically to covid, I don't think mask "mandate" saved or will save
many
: people. By mandating, you probably changed the compliance of mask-wearing : from 70% to 80%. What does it really do? For sure mask mandate would not
: save 500k people. Maybe it just saved 10% of those people, say 50k, which : will fall below your threshold.

r
rdfirdfi

1. Mask mandate is not inline with what you said "as community members, we
need to make some sacrifice to help them". This would be an advisory, as
many state that didn't mandate mask did. It's just as about effective as
mandates.

3. It was pretty much of no use because there is no need - which means covid never overwhelmed US healthcare system.

4. EO is fine in the case of emergency. Specifically for covid, I'm just
against to mandate mask using EO after a whole year. If everyone in your LA county agrees to wear mask, there would not be a need to mandate them, right?

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1. Many people, millions, cannot do what you said. As community members,
: we need to make some sacrifice to help them.
: 2. Of course LA is only a small portion of the US, I simply meant facial : mask mandate and safer-at-home have helped us a lot here in LA. Whether
or
: not other places need it, I am not arguing about that.
: 3. Trump did send the navy hospital ship to LA, but it took more than a
: month for it to get in position, and it was pretty much of no use.
: 4. I never advocate an EO in national level. I believe a state level EO is
: appropriate. Even in county level might be appropriate once the
situation
: becomes much better and only a few hot spots are still problematic.
: ...................

r
rdfirdfi

Your logic is flawed. If there is no argument, and everyone agrees to wear a mask, there doesn't need to be a mandate.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: The mask mandate is not as effective as it intends because many of us are : still arguing. And as a result, it is not enforced.
: %
: many

r
rdfirdfi

I agree with you:
1. If everyone wears a mask, it will significantly reduce the rate of covid transmission.

2. You and me personally would wear a mask solely to protect others.

I don't agree with you:
1. I don't think government has the right to ask its people to do things to protect others. They can only stop people from hurting others with certainty and evidence, such as in the case of a crime.

2. I don't think mandating mask would save many people, giving the
circumstance of US.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Again, "me, me, me" is the problem. When Cal is in bad shape, it still is,
: I am willing to sacrifice some of my freedom so that we don't spread it to
: TX or other states. We all should. Since many of us are just thinking
: about "me, me, me", it is necessary to have those mandates to prevent them
: from getting infected from and infecting others. You certainly will agree
: with me, it is just you have a higher price, right?

r
rdfirdfi

The government should achieve that by a better public message than mandating mask.

For example, Fauci can be fired back in April 2020 for he said that masks
are not useful. Then find someone else to persuade people wearing their
masks to protect others and themselves.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: Wearing mask yourself is not enough. I've never accused you of not
wearing
: mask. But we need almost all people in public to do that, when they might
: run into others, to save lives--our own, our loved ones' and other fellow : Americans'.
: %
: many

FortyNiner

When you travel by air, you sacrifice certain rights and freedom. There is no evidence that I am a terrorist, why do I need to go through metal
detector? I am going through the metal detector not for myself, I know that for sure. And you go through it not for yourself either. Effectively we , 99.9999% of us, all go through for others. We have no problem with that. By the way, how many people died due to bombs on flight the last twelve
months? We all go through the metal detectors and, as a result, waste hours in the airports for xxx number of lives potentially lost to terrorists on
flights, yet we don't want to put on just the masks to save 600k Americans' lives.

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: I agree with you:
: 1. If everyone wears a mask, it will significantly reduce the rate of
covid
: transmission.
: 2. You and me personally would wear a mask solely to protect others.
: I don't agree with you:
: 1. I don't think government has the right to ask its people to do things
to
: protect others. They can only stop people from hurting others with
certainty
: and evidence, such as in the case of a crime.
: 2. I don't think mandating mask would save many people, giving the
: circumstance of US.
: ...................

FortyNiner

Nothing is wrong with my logic. Because many people do not agree with mask mandates and therefore do not wear it, police cannot enforce it to avoid
being accused of selective enforcement. As a result, many people do not
wear mask and trim the effectiveness of mask. Imagine this goes through the legislatures, it will take forever for them to pass a law. By the time
they finally pass a law, too many people might have lost their lives or
fortunately the pandemic has already been over (like the Ebola or MERS case , but we are not always that lucky.)

【 在 rdfirdfi (rdfi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Your logic is flawed. If there is no argument, and everyone agrees to wear a
: mask, there doesn't need to be a mandate.

【 在 FortyNiner (Niner) 的大作中提到: 】
: The mask mandate is not as effective as it intends because many of us are
: still arguing. And as a result, it is not enforced.
: %
: many

m
majia0100

看你的言论,可以理解成:
我想广场中心拉屎,这是我的自由。你们觉得恶心的可以不去广场,但无权干涉我的自由。

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你们这些人也不明白,用所谓潜在得危险给政府无限扩大得公权力是人类社会走向
1984
: 得根本原因。先不要说口罩瞎jb乱带有球用,就算有用,这种强制得权力也应该留给个
: 体。商家公司应该自己决定这些policy,政府不得干预,你有选择权去强制口罩得场所
: 。所以德州得决定才是最正确得选择。一个餐馆如果不强制,所有口罩党可以不去么。
: 如果全人类都相信口罩有用,这个餐馆不就倒闭了么

s
stud2

做事情都要有个度。如果这个病毒死亡率10%,政府立法,也无伤大雅。如果没有病毒
还立法强制口罩,我第一个反对。估计法案也不会通过。认为疫情期间强制口罩和强制结扎是一回事,那就是抬杠了。

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你觉得有用就带2个或者10个,biz觉得有用就可以强制,你家你说了说,穿防化服都行
: 。你为啥非得政府强制别人带,别人不带你不接触不就好了么。今天可以强制口罩,明
: 天可以强制结扎,在过几天阳性就当场枪毙我看都可以写进法律了

nokia9300

有种你娃别用儿童座椅。傻逼玩意儿还有脸在这里瞎几把逼逼。

美帝就是因为你们这些傻逼全世界感染最多,死的最多,还几把有脸逼逼。

真是操了你妈鸡巴。
【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你觉得有用就带2个或者10个,biz觉得有用就可以强制,你家你说了说,穿防化服都行
: 。你为啥非得政府强制别人带,别人不带你不接触不就好了么。今天可以强制口罩,明
: 天可以强制结扎,在过几天阳性就当场枪毙我看都可以写进法律了

daemonself1

lol,贵母居然是有鸡巴得优秀人种?厉害了
【 在 nokia9300 (甘兰凉肃) 的大作中提到: 】
: 有种你娃别用儿童座椅。傻逼玩意儿还有脸在这里瞎几把逼逼。
: 美帝就是因为你们这些傻逼全世界感染最多,死的最多,还几把有脸逼逼。
: 真是操了你妈鸡巴。

mileyanjing

你穿裤衩儿吗?光大屁眼子吧

【 在 daemonself1 (daemon) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你觉得有用就带2个或者10个,biz觉得有用就可以强制,你家你说了说,穿防化服都行
: 。你为啥非得政府强制别人带,别人不带你不接触不就好了么。今天可以强制口罩,明
: 天可以强制结扎,在过几天阳性就当场枪毙我看都可以写进法律了